Yesterday during lunch, a colleague and I got very passionately involved in a discussion of a study of 30,000 workers who were asked whether their jobs “made the world a better place.” Participants could respond to the statement with the following options: “yes,” “a little,” “no,” and “My job may make the world a worse place.” Approximately 1% (300) selected the last option. The New York Times blog Economix, requested the data from the survey regarding which job titles and industries indicated that they were worsening our world. Here are the specific industries that felt they were making the world worse:
And specific job titles:
It wasn’t really surprising to me that tobacco, petroleum, gambling, alcohol, and fast food places ranked in this area. Yes, those things are fun, but really they are just fueling vices for many of us. It was interesting that three of those directly affect your health. I also wondered if other areas like investment banking, advertising, personal banker, attorneys (I wish it would have noted the area of law because there is obviously a huge percentage of attorneys who are defending people, ideas, and rights that are making the world better for many populations), gambling, and claims investigator had to do with the feeling of “baiting people” or screwing them over. And if fashion feels bad because if a zombie apocalypse happened tomorrow no one would give a crap about it? Or because they make clothes that most people can’t (won’t) buy and can’t fit in? Additionally, I wonder if the “worsening of the world” for jewelry, leather, and luggage has to do with the ethical reasons behind conflict gems and selling animal hide or because they are simply luxury goods that aren’t really necessary for life.
Anyway, we discussed these items then moved to weighing the value of what we do in the world. Is higher education worth it? Personally, and I am biased because it is my career and passion, I believe that higher education is a vital and life-changing experience. Socially it opens your world up to new people, ideas, cultures, beliefs, and world views. I believe it teaches you how to critically assess the world around you. And education provides you with the skills to research and access knowledge. All of these things happen independently of the actual knowledge you gain in higher education. Honestly, I believe the actual information is one of the least important values of higher education. To me, it is more about how the experience shapes you and your world view. Overall, I do feel that education makes the world a better place. I believe that teaching children to read and write gives them power. I would find it hard to believe that a person who is illiterate has a fair chance at gaining the power necessary to take control of their life and shape the world around them. For instance, I cannot imagine the difficulty of obtaining public assistance or finding a job without the ability to read and write. How many people cannot learn how to navigate a complicated system (such as public welfare or an insurance claim) without knowing how to obtain that knowledge? Education also provides social status and respect in many areas. If you identify yourself as “Dr. Fullofshit” (my official title, by the way) you are still probably going to receive better treatment. It’s an unfortunate fact in our society, but that doesn’t make it any less untrue in many instances. Obviously, plenty of terrible people can read and write, but would would they have gained the power that they have without it? I do not know.
For the past several years there has been an increasing focus on the value of education and the correlating cost. Students complaining that they want a refund for their degree, the cost of college was more than the value of their degree, and it doesn’t help them get a job. Frankly, I have little patience for this. No one made you attend a private college that cost $60,000 a year in tuition. You chose that. Community colleges offer you two full years of education at a teeny tiny fraction of the cost of a four-year university. Small public universities can also be very affordable. No one made you get a bachelor’s degree in psychology. You were likely advised that you would have trouble finding a job with that degree without further education. Finally, the value of a degree has little to do with the cost. You cannot calculate cost for knowledge or experience gained. I might say that the knowledge I gained in my doctorate was worth every penny I spent because it enabled me to get a good job in the field. Someone else who hasn’t been so lucky might find their degree worthless. It is far too subjective to place monetary value on.
Anyway, a rant on the complications of the costs of education and BS involved in budget cutting and tuition regulation is an argument for another day. I believe that education as a whole and a process is vital to the world. I believe it gives people opportunities they may never have. Higher education is the ticket out of generational poverty for my student worker. She will probably be the first person in her family to have insurance. We have thousands of first-generation students who are desperately clawing their way to a better life through higher ed. Even though I believe in the institution of education, I often wonder if what I do every day makes the world any better. I make red tape. I complete policy analysis and write policies. The vast majority of which we have absolutely no choice in as they were ascribed by a higher power (not God unfortunately). I’m a fun ruiner. I tell people “no” all day long. People rarely get off the phone with me in a happy mood. I enforce rules and I make people’s lives more complicated and tedious as our government requires more documentation and accountability. No longer is a PhD in English good enough to teach. I have to have a completed form explaining what fields they specialized in and how they are qualified to teach technical writing. And if it doesn’t look accurate, I get the joy of informing a dean that they have someone who cannot teach English who has a doctorate in English. And I wonder why I don’t’ have many friends. I try to look at the big picture and believe that I am a piece in the puzzle that is making opportunities for young people and the underserved and underprivileged populations we teach.
So, do you feel like the work you do makes the world better? Is it important to you that it does or is a job a job? I feel really conflicted about that. On one hand, I have to have a job (aka income) to survive. I want food, a safe and clean place to live, and insurance. At the end of the day, I think it wouldn’t matter if it came down to survival (which is why I pass no judgement on people who strip or are involved in the sex industry). But, I’ve been lucky to work in higher education for the past (almost – yeesh) 10 years and it is a enterprise I wholly believe in. So, thoughts? Any industries you are surprised aren’t up there?
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I am getting ready to graduate with a bachelor’s in Chemistry. I still haven’t found a job (tough job market over here), but I am keeping my fingers crossed. I would still like to get a doctorate, but I don’t want to pay a lot of money for grad school until I know exactly what I want to do (right now I have no idea).
Anyway, over breaks I work at a pet store. I can’t really say that I feel like I am changing the world, but I enjoy being able to educate people on the animals they have or are trying to purchase. It amazes me how people will just decide they want a pet without any research, so I am glad to have the opportunity to help people choose the correct pet based upon their budget and lifestyle. It ensures that the animals we sell won’t end up getting neglected or sent to a shelter (we do not sell cats and dogs, though, for that very reason. Too many end up in shelters).
So although I am obviously not changing the world, I think my job does make a difference. I have a soft spot for animals, so it makes me feel good to know that I sell them to people who will appropriately care for them. :)
Clearly you are making the world a better place because you are protecting animals from idiots. I definitely think that is worth something.
This is a really interesting discussion and incredibly relevant in my life at the present moment. While I mostly agree with you re: the cost of school and the value of education, there are a few things you are neglecting to recognize. First and foremost, not every community has a community college, leading to sometimes significant additional cost, and secondly, there are many places where a state institution is hours and hours away from home, leading some youth to opt a private university that may be costlier but also closer to home.
The point of this is to say: there’s a whole lot of gambling involved in building a really successful life. Oh, and the state of our high schools, and the significant disparities between them, lead to some huge failures in higher education. Case in point: I didn’t have a textbook for AP Bio, our only AP course, because my school couldn’t afford it. I then went to a ritzy college where almost all of my classmates had credits upon credits of AP classes. I started out behind (I’m privileged in a lot of other areas but this was a significant disadvantage).
I finish my second Masters (MPH) in May and am hoping that with my MSW and MPH, I can find a career that greatly improves our country/globe while still providing me with an income that I find sufficient. As I job search, I find myself constantly conflicted. There are job postings for positions that would be WONDERFUL but with pay that is laughable. On the contrary, a number of positions, typically in consulting or non-profit management, would provide me with the opportunity to live well financially but perhaps not be as happy personally.
It’s a choice I’ll have to make and I will be prepared to make some changes as needed.
Also, can humans please step up their game and stop blaming others for the horrendous choices they make? It is not the tobacco company’s fault that you smoke – IT IS YOURS!
Whoa, this got wordy. Sorry.
You have a valid point with the location. I grew up in a small town without a college. So I drove 5 hours. But I had a car and my parents helped me with gas money. So, I did fail to recognize that aspect . You are completely correct with the gambling aspect. I was talking to someone yesterday about how perfectly the opportunities in your life have to open up to go to and finish college. There are so many factors that can go wrong and prevent completion or enrollment.
And yes, community college is not cheap. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of someone bitching about $80,000 a year in tuition. A community college would be a much more affordable option for them. But I do understand that how for many people (such as those in the city I live in) it is a huge struggle to finance a single course each semester.
And yes on the smoking.
Hi Lauren, I was just wondering why you would consider non-profit management as not quite satisfying. I am asking because I have been in non-profit management for five years. I often deal with line staff and their complaints that I’m more concerned with paperwork/money/contract objectives/etc. but my response usually is that you have to do both sides sides (direct services and administrative) in order to be successful. So while having clean audits may not been as sexy or personally rewarding as having a client be the first one in the family to go to college, they are necessary for continuation of funding.
i’m not shocked by any of the jobs up there…i think maybe fashion is the only one i had to actually think about why it would be up there. i guess fashion puts up standards, especially for women, that the vast majority of the female population cannot ‘live up to’. thus eating disorders, etc.
right now i teach pre-school/pre-k and kids up to about 8 at a theatre school here in chicago. i absolutely love it. and i think it is important, because even though we aren’t a real school learning the ABCs, we are a theatre school, learning fun games, creativity, and expanding the imagination of children. it’s a place for every child to grow in a way they won’t at a regular school. i am graduating from a 4 year college in may with a degree in acting…and i actually want to go back to my original 2 year college to get an associate degree in early childhood education so i can actually teach real pre-school and pre-k classes.
so i guess, like you, i highly value education. i just highly value early childhood education. :)
That sounds like such an incredible job! I think there is infinite value in teaching kids about culture, the arts, and creativity. The world would be a sorry place without it. And good luck on getting your teaching certification!!
I work in IT and I do not think it is making the world a better place, nor do I think it is making the world a worse place. We develop web and mobile applications for our clients, some of which are huge companies that affect a lot of people. So I’d say that we definitely affect a lot of people, just not one way or the other.
My degrees (B.A. and M.S.) are communications-related, and one of my turnoffs about PR and advertising is the superficiality behind both, which is part of the reason why I wouldn’t want to do either.
At the end of the day, I would LOVE to find a job where I feel like I’m making the world a better place. Seeing the direct positive result of all of your hard work, and how it helps others, means more to me than anything else. I have to find meaning in the work I am doing, and that is something that is seriously lacking for me right now.
I was a legal assistant in my first job, so I can absolutely verify all of the law-related jobs. WORST.
ALthough, now I’m a “management consultant” which is by FAR the worst. It’s not even a real thing, we get paid to tell other people (companies, the U.S. government…) what to do.
I think education is priceless. Of course I teach 5th grade to inner-city students, at a school where we need to supply our own toilet paper. There are days when the lack of supplies and materials frustrates me. However when a former gets in touch with me to tell me they’ve been accepted into college or graduated college, or even graduate school, that makes it all worth it. I’m giving these students the opportunity to make a better life for themselves and isn’t that every one’s dream?
I know, our education funding is in a sorry state. It makes me ragey that kids come to school and don’t even have toilet paper. And I think that what you do matters because you are giving them the skills and abilities where college becomes a real choice for them.
I would be interested to see if politicians believed they were making the world a better place (or government officials)…or even military personnel.
I work for the Department of Defense and I definately could say I am helping make the world a better place, and also a worse place. More over, sometimes I think I am making the USA a better place – supporting our military and wounded warriors, but is that necessarily always great for the world? No, not necessarily.
Higher education? I think the people coming out of college these days feel as though they have some sort of entitlement. Just because you put in 4 years at a school and paid $120K in tuition, does not mean you deserve a job that pays well. The world has changed and a bachelors or masters degree is not a sure thing for having a good job that pays the bills. Like it or not, its the truth. I picked a shitty major in school, and I was “lucky” that I found a career that pays well. I graduated in 2007 and I know many of my sorority sisters do not have stable or well paying jobs. I am assuming it has just gotten worse as the years have progressed.
So bottom line, a 4 year degree does not mean you are going to be driving that BMW and living in a McMansion.
:-)
I currently work in Admissions doing Student Recruitment & Community Outreach at a large community college in Michigan, where I also teach Interpersonal Communication part-time. Our institution has some of the lowest tuition and fees in our state, and yet each and every day I see students struggling to pay their tuition (or being forced to choose which bills are a priority – paying for food/other household bills or college tuition). The value of a college education is priceless in my opinion (I hold proudly hold a B.A. and M.A. in Organizational/Interpersonal Communication and my education truly changed my life), but the correlating costs are nonsensical. I would love to see there be true access to higher education for a greater percentage of our population; because while yes, community colleges/technical schools/etc are cheap-er, they are by no means cheap or even affordable for many.
And I do just have to add – I love my job, I adore working with college students (all types of students – traditional, nontraditional, international, etc – I have direct contact with each of these groups in my current roles). I believe that I am working to make the world a better place. However, I do sometimes wonder, how hard are we making this process? Functioning within the system of higher education we have in place today is difficult, for many reasons and dependent on many situational factors; but I find myself constantly thinking about how much easier college actually could be for students, both in terms of access and overall success. (by success I do not mean handing over grades on a platter, I’m talking more about receiving services like financial assistance and student services, and how many hurdles are involved in just accessing these types of things). So, while I do think educators are doing a great service and working hard to improve the world we live in, I still feel like we could be doing so much more to make it even better.
By the way Cely, a few of my girlfriends have me HOOKED on your blog! I read you every day and I adore what you write; you always make me laugh, out loud in many instances! My friends and I sometimes find ourselves discussing your posts like you’re a girlfriend in our friend group (we like to think we go “way back”)! =) Thanks for sharing with us!
A thousand times yes on your second paragraph. Ever single semester of my doctorate my financial aid was messed up. I spent DAYS in those offices trying to straighten things out. Then I had to spend hours tracking down deans and professors to try and get re-enrolled in the classes I had been dropped from for non-payment. And I work here and know exactly who to see and how they system works. I can’t imagine navigating that at 18. And I know that the student services staff gets so burned out and beat down because all they deal with are problems, but the system and the bureaucracy is making everyone miserable.
And I wish higher education was truly affordable. I wish the government would stop cutting support while forcing us to hire more HIGH QUALITY (i.e. extremely expensive) faculty members because they put caps on the number of kids who can be in a class, and who can teach freshmen core curriculum classes…. GRRR. If they would step up support tuition would not have to be raised. Such an ugly cycle.
And we can totally be friends who go “way back” hahaha.
I’m unemployed and pretty much worthless to society as a whole. I’m what the economists term a “free loader”
The best part is that I’m sitting on my ass using my master’s degree as toilet paper for all the worth I’ve gotten from it in years.
I think you probably need a master’s degree to be qualified to raise a tiny evil dictator. It will all pay off one day when she rules the world and you can just smile and wave as the mother who did it.
Then people will have to say that I made the world a better place or incur the wrath of the dictator. I like it.
You can’t lose!
Very interesting post. I totally agree on the value of a higher education and can’t wait to get my masters in the next year (though I keep saying that, its been 10 years since I graduated with my undergrad).
With that being said, I’m a geological engineer currently working on environmental remediation projects. You would think that I am making the world a better place by cleaning it up, but I find most of the projects are made up by various government entities to keep themselves busy and with a job.
So that puts me to the direction in which I was thinking of getting my masters…. in Petroleum Engineering. Its on your list up there, whoops. In my defense, I want to be on the environmental cleanup side of the industry.
Your blog isn’t supposed to make me think, now my head hurts.
I think there is value in Petroleum Engineering. There are so many people in this sector working to make our use of oil cleaner and safer for the environment. The fact is that we depend on oil and that isn’t changing anytime soon. I”m just glad there are people in there working to make our use of it less harmful to the environment.
Well lets see…I design and print the dials that go on the instrument gauges on airplanes (like the Knots and Fuel Quantity)….I think that’s pretty cool. And probably makes the world a little bit better……unless I get something wrong on the dial and the airplane crashes. That would be bad. So far no crashes yet.
But I paid a whopping amount for my 7 year higher education (not a doctor, just liked to drink beer a lot, so it took me 3 extra years to graduate) and while I’m still working ‘sorta’ in my degree, I’m definitely not doing what I thought I was going to do with my life. But I’d never ask anyone to ‘erase’ my debt!! For Christs sake, I freaking spent that money (maybe just a little of it on beer), so it’s MY responsibility to pay it back! Stupid government want’s to forgive student loans….if they really want to do that, they should pay it out of their own pocket and not my fraction of a paycheck.
Anyway, interesting post!
Well I think the world is better if dials on planes work and we aren’t all crashing into the sea. Plus airplanes are used to see loved ones and go on vacation, all very good things!
And I have about 37 million in student loans and I agree. I chose college, it wasn’t forced upon me. Just like all those people chose houses they couldn’t pay for. And I know you don’t plan to get laid off, but still, I don’t want to pay for your home!
Airplane use oil thought, and make noises, then then there are the nasty TA line…
The whole my job “make a world a worse place” is so judgy. If its a job, then someone is benefit from it otherwise you would be paid to do it. It may not be actually benefit but someone think so. College do not aways equal education.
Higher education is NOT priceless. I am currently going to school to get my four year degree at an in state public university and it costs about $20,000 per year. Really?! Tuition has gone about 9% in my 4 years alone.
Everyone seems to think that people have a right to go to college- they don’t. I believe higher education should be affordable to everyone BUT the Government is driving up the price of higher education because they argue it should be available. Anyone can receive a student loan, that means that colleges have no problem raising tuition because they know students will pay for it. It’s corrupt and soon it will all collapse just like the housing market did.
Unless you are currently in school, paying for school, or are directly effected by student loans… you have no idea how much higher education costs in today’s world.
Oh and by the way… the job market sucks. So the priceless education I just received for $80,000 (plus interest) won’t be going anywhere for awhile.
Heather,
I completely and totally understand your anger and frustration with tuition. 100%. I don’t know where you live, but I know that in Texas we have had to raise tuition because they state and federal government have cut their funding by over 25% over the past couple of years. That is an enormous loss of funds. Sadly, the only way for colleges to make up for that loss is with tuition. State universities are supposed to be more affordable because they are largely funded by the government. Sadly, that is getting less and less each year. I know in meetings I attend with leadership from other universities that raising tuition is not something public schools want. I believe that the people (well the ones I’ve spoken to or heard speak) who work in administration love education and believe in it remaining affordable for everyone to attend. When prices get high, it starts to cut out some of the populations of that can benefit most from a degree.
Anyway, job market sucks and tuition sucks. I understand why you are mad, and just so you know, we are all mad too!
A lot of this boils down to personal responsibility in my opinion. Sure people working in fast food and tobacco might think they are making the world a worse place. But we have a choice to use the substance/product or not. Nobody twists our arm. And then it comes down to supply/demand, the less of us used their product, the less of those jobs there are in those industries. Also there are overseas workers who depend on the tobacco and other industries for their livelihood who would possibly starve without it. Life is a big cycle. nobody is responsible for us, except for us.
and so I call bullshit with people asking for refunds of their degrees! My experience of university is that the info is put out there, you have the lecturers and tutors and the lectures and libraries and online content, you have it all out there for you. It’s up to you what you do with that. So if your degree isn’t ‘good enough’ you only have yourself to blame, and possibly your research of the job market before you enrolled.
So many people now don’t want to own their actions. We will never get anywhere if we spend our lives blaming everyone but ourselves. To be in control of our lives is to take full responsibility.
Kids however.. argh. They don’t have a choice or much chance to take control, at least not at a very young age. And they are in their parents hands. Which is why parents who absolve themselves of responsibility and blame in life are even worse – they affect their kid’s lives too.
I used to work a lot of different volunteer jobs – in homelessness, in libraries, as a vet assistant, in a cafe raising funds where little old ladies mostly went for their morning tea. I didn’t change the world, but I like to think I contributed. I shared a smile and a kind word with someone, comforted someone, helped a hurt or sick animal, helped someone find a book to read that might open up a whole new world to them… They were positions that just made me happy. I hope I can do something like that again. At the moment I feel like a burden on the world as I’ve been sick so long and the country supports my health care and my expenses and living.
Yes on responsibility. I got a degree in a useless major so I had to go to graduate school (because I have no skills or talents that would enable me to craft a career without a degree). Now I have more debt and that sucks, but I have a job. So mission accomplished there.
And I think volunteering is one of the best ways to make the world better. Just being nice to someone or helping someone is worthwhile.
And I don’t think anyone should ever feel guilty for being ill. The reality is, in most cases, there is nothing to be done. I didn’t ask for arthritis, I didn’t do anything to “get” it, and there is only so much to be done. Don’t feel guilty, most people will get knocked down at some point.
i work for an oil and gas company so i am sure people don’t think we make the world a better place buy i honestly do. i am an accountant so maybe MY job isn’t changing the world but i think my company is helping us not depend on foreign oil and giving jobs to a lot of people in rural communities that would not normally have a job. we also give a ton back to the community. so that is my opinion and im sure tons of people will disagree. and i hope they all enjoy $5 gas this summer bc Iran is crazy.
No joke. Even in a field where some people might have issue (dependence on oil), it is extremely valuable to have people out there making that practice better.
Interesting. I quickly realized with my first undergraduate major that I needed to be in a field where I felt like I was contributing to making the world a better place, which is why I switched to environmental stuff. Once I finish my phd – in like 2 months! – I’ll be moving to DC to be a cog in the policy development process. I think it’s important. I don’t necessarily think our elected officials are working well together these days but it’s how our system is set up and it will get better. I will play a very small support role in the process but I am passionate about my field – natural resources management, specifically, federal lands (ie national parks, national forests). Those our the jewels of our nation and the choices we make today affect what they will look like for our grandchildren’s grandchildren. I also strongly agree with you that the overall experience of higher education is much more important than the actual coursework. And I think it’s overpriced and it breaks my heart to see the cuts that are being made that will likely necessitate even higher costs. When I started my phd i wanted to stay in academia, but then I landed my dream job so now I’m happy to be leaving academia and I won’t have to chase down grants. But I’ll get the best of both worlds because I will continue to teach as an adjunct! Now, off to grade midterms.
THANK YOU!!!! My family loves national parks and I agree that they are one of the most valuable resources in our nation. I shudder to think of a world with Yosemite or Yellowstone. Good luck and have fun with those midterms! Yuck.
I am fascinated at the diversity of people commenting on this post. A degree doesn’t ensure you have a well paying job, skills do. From what I’ve been reading lately, maybe some of those who want their money back should have looked in to skilled trades. There are jobs available that no one wants because they aren’t “white collar” prestige jobs.
OMG I totally agree with you about trade schools… I think that the problem with education is that higher education (as in a 4 year degree) has become more “normal” over the last generation, therefore so many kids (myself included) just head off to college when they finish high school and do not think about how their degree will benefit their future, they just know that they “need” a degree. I have a BA in Molecular Neuroscience (yes, a BA…went to a liberal arts school) and am now a dispatcher for the department of transportation and the US Forest Service. Do I regret my degree? No. Was Mol. Neuroscience the best thing to study? Probably not. I was lucky enough to have my education paid for by my parents and am not struggling with student loans, but I do wish that more guidance counselors (and other influential adults in the lives of students) would tout the importance of vocational skills over just any degree.
Innnnnteresting. I am not shocked at all at the jobs that are on that list, however I have to disagree with the alcohol service one…for selfish reasons, wine definitely makes my own world a better place.
I am proud to say that my job makes the world a better place! I work for a non-profit organization that provides provincial championships for high school athletes, and our mandate is “education through school sport”. We also provide funding for participation programs, scholarships, and bursaries. It is so awesome to gain such a feeling of fulfillment from my “job”. I really feel like I am making a difference, however small, and it is so motivating and inspiring. Especially when I go out to events and actually get to SEE the joy on the faces of our student-athletes.
But in high school I worked at Dairy Queen, which would be making the world a worse place (and my pants a snugger place) according to that list, so I guess it evens out.
I agree with you about higher education 100%. I totally do not remember everything I learned, but my experiences changed me and shaped me into the person I am. It helped me grow up and become a proper adult (well, almost).
But I also think that higher education is not for everyone. Not everyone can get a PhD, or even needs a PhD for what they want to do. Some peoples’ brains do not work in the way that university requires them to. For example – I suck at math, I’ll never understand it, my brain just does not work that way. English and history have always been my thing, so me getting a PhD in something mathy would absolutely never happen, and nor should it. It wasn’t what I was meant for. I really feel like some people may not ever be literate, no matter how hard they try.
Anyway, this definitely made me think this morning, and also made me value my job and education!
A. What an awesome job you have!! I think people vastly underestimate the power of athletics in education.
B. Dairy Queen does make the world better. A Blizzard on a bad day keeps me from shanking strangers.
C. And yes, not everyone wants or needs a PhD. I wouldn’t have a doctorate if I didn’t absolutely have to have one to advance in my field (laaaaaaaaaame). And yes, higher education is not the best choice for many many people. A lot of people do not need college to be successful as they already have the skills or talents needed for success in their field.
D. Can’t do math either. Would fail every class.
Education is definitely important, though not a guarantee. In my family alone, my older brother busted his ass to pay his way through college (my parents do not value higher education, so we were on our own) and he now owns his own very successful business in Europe and is rolling in dough. My sister did not go to college, and she has struggled her entire life (just like my parents did) to pay her bills and find happiness in her work. I started school when I was 23 (because I didn’t know what I wanted to do before that), but the 5 years just working minimum wage jobs full time definitely made me really eager to study my way to a career that will be exciting and challenging.
On the other hand, my husband has a masters in education and can’t find a teaching job to save his life. Thankfully he’s able to defer his loans, as we would have to live on the street to pay them with the money I make at my minimum wage job while I’m in school and his pitiful substitute teaching paychecks. The hope is that someday (soon, please!) he will find a teaching job, which would be impossible had he not invested in education.
As far as making the world a worse place, I don’t think the people who work for minimum wage at a fast food joint are doing so. People chose to eat there, so there’s personal responsibility involved, and those in charge of advertising are shouldering a great deal of the blame for sucking people in.
I’m so sorry about your husband. I was talking to a colleague recently about how much I hate that so many female students are herded into education with the promise of easily finding a job. Um, maybe 7 years ago, but certainly not today. Anyway, I hope you guys get full time jobs soon so you aren’t living on the street!
Totally! I’m a Spanish major, and 90% of the people in my class are education majors. I’m like, um, guys? You might want to think of a backup plan. I’m a Linguistic minor (studying to be a translator) and in my Phonetics class, I’d say at least 50% of the students have degrees in education and are now going back for Communication Disorder degrees because they couldn’t find jobs. Education is definitely not the best choice right now! Thanks for the well wishes!
I think about this a lot too. I’m a librarian and literature/literacy is my passion. But, I work in an expensive private school in Louisiana-one of the worst states for public education. I feel like I should be in a public school where I’d do more good, but I love my job. And that is important too. In Cambridge I worked in an inner city school and I had a hard time connecting with them since our backgrounds are so different. So they didn’t trust me or my book recs.
Them=students.
I don’t think that because you work for a private school that the value of what you do is any less. Schools need librarians to function. They are the vassals of literature and knowledge. I think that what you do is probably very vital to the students you work with and the school you work for.
When I was still teaching (elementary), I would have been able to say “Yes, my job definitely makes the world a better place.” Since I’ve left teaching to work for an accounting firm, my answer would be “Ehhhh, maybe???” However, the job is better for me (better hours, less stress, more flexibility, better pay) so I’m living selfishly in that regard and don’t really care that my job is so much less rewarding. It’s not important for my job to make the world better, and I volunteer now to get that feeling of helping. And also, I’d note that most of the jobs listed make someone’s world better (earn someone money) or they wouldn’t be in business any longer – even if they are detrimental to society as a whole.
I currently work for an attorney – well, I work for a firm, but I specifically work for one guy. I’m not at ALL surprised that the legal field is represented in that study because there is absolutely a segment of the legal field that is smarmy.
I feel pretty lucky because while I am not thrilled with the firm for whom I work, I very much like my specific boss. He does both plaintiff’s work and defense work. I think he acts ethically and at the end of the day, I see in his actions that he wants to protect and do the best work he can for his clients. Now is that attitude common in this field? Probably not which is why lawyers have the rep they do – that didn’t come from no where. It’s sad because this is a powerful position and it CAN be used to do so much good, but frequently it’s just used to line already full pockets with even more money.
That long explanation being said, I generally like my job. I do have a Bachelor’s degree and am I using it? No. Do I feel I benefitted from it? Absolutely. I completely agree with what you said that it’s not the specific knowledge we received in school – it was what I gleaned from that entire experience. I think I’m a better, more-rounded (and I’m not just speaking ass size here) person for it. I don’t regret those 4 years in the least. I feel very blessed to have had the opportunity.
I work in a career services office on a mid-sized 4-year campus and I’d say that my work makes the world better. Actually, it helps the people to be better and in turn make the world a better place. I love working with students to help them realize their dreams and how to practically go about gaining experience while in college. I talk to freshman classes all the time about taking advantage of the college experience (volunteer, internships, student orgs, working on campus, etc.) to be the best job candidate possible once they get to graduation. I also hold the philosophy that you can only lead a horse to water, you can’t make them drink. I do what I can and share the resources I have access to. It’s up to the students to make something of themselves.
On a slightly different note, it’s probably a good thing that it’s your job to make red tape. That makes everyone be more accountable for what they are trying achieve. Isn’t that what society wants higher education to be, more accountable?
Hahah, they certainly do. Everyone wants accountability and transparency with less funding. Who is going to do all this accounting of quality and paperwork exactly??
Argh, I think about this all the time, as I too work in admin in higher ed (and am getting my doctorate in higher ed). I have conflicted feelings about this: Do I support higher education? Absolutely. I think it’s a gamechanger for so many people (myself included). However, I think that the costs are spiraling out of control – costs often associated with bloated admin (and, IMO, often student affairs <– makes me very unpopular in higher ed programs!). As we've added more admin and support staff, health care costs have increased exponentially, making for a double whammy.
I love my job, but often think about how my salary could equal one or more full scholarships for low-income students. I'm not faculty, and I don't directly work with students (hence, admin). Thirty years ago my job didn't exist, and I'm not sure it should now. I often marvel at the lack of self-awareness in some higher ed professionals (myself included). We'll sit around a budget meeting and before the meeting gets started complain about the decrease in the financial aid budget relative to tuition increases, and then promptly fightfightfight to increase our budgets incrementally to add another program or another staff member, without acknowledging the connection between the two (and yes I know the complexities of higher ed finance and how it's not all one big pot o'cash, but still). I think budgets need to reflect institutional priorities, and institutional priorities need to reflect societal values.
Ah, what a wonderful world that would be.
Yes. It’s such a hard balance. We are supposed to go from 10,000 to 15,000 students over the next five years (per the mandate of the Govna’). We will have to hire new faculty and find ways to do new degree programs to attract students. Sadly, that costs money. Who says we will be better with 15,000 students? It’s not going to increase the quality of our education. Instead, it will cost a lot of money and change one of the things we treasure most: small classes. Our student body is made of students who were mostly in the bottom half of their high school class and are first-generation. They need small classes for success. They need faculty who can help them and know them. Sadly, the state says we need more more more! It’s a travesty.
I agree with you to a point. The 4 year collage I went to cost me a total of 25,000 and was worth every penny. However, that same school now costs 160,000 for 4 years! I only graduated 10 years ago! INSANE! Furthermore, I chose to go to law school and now have $160,0000 of student loans to pay back. While I have a job, the market has made it nearly impossible to advance in my field so the amount I owe is now GROWING due to interest. People are stuck in entry level positions for a lot longer. What would I have done if my BA cost that much though? Graduate law school with 320,000 of debt? And nearly all professional education costs around $40,000 a year public or private. I think higher education is incredibly valuable but starting your life saddled with debt the size of a decent house makes the future bleak…especially now when jobs are so hard to get. If I could turn back the clock, I would change everything about my education.
Agreed, starting life with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt is miserable (I am in this). I spent several years making $18,000 working full time and it was pure hell. If I could go back I would have picked a major from day one that would have been in a better field. But I didn’t, so I had to go to graduate school. I don’t regret goign to college because I know it changed who I am and how I see the world in very dramatic ways (I grew up in a small, predominately white town in the middle of nowhere. I didn’t know anyone who was gay or from another country). But, like you, I would have navigated the system quite differently.
I think it is such a bummer that you make those critical decisions when you are 17 or 18 years old and you are so unwise. Such is life though.
I know! I wish I could have started college when I was 25 and had a better grip on my life. But, I also recognize that if I had been working full time post-high school the chances that I would stop to go to school are slim. Now that I have the luxury of not studying all the time and I can just focus on work, the thought of going back makes shudder. I like having income and free time. I don’t want to write anymore papers! As you said, such is life.
And by the way, I don’t know anyone with as much education debt as me….not even close…I don’t even know anyone who has half as much education debt. So I think it is actually comforting to just know there are other people out there, like you, who have debt like that too! Sometimes it is very isolating. Not that I’m happy you do too but you know what I mean.
Wow, fascinating post and even more fascinating responses from those who commented. I feel like my generation (late 20s or so) is trapped in a strange time. We were raised, or at least I and many of my friends were raised to believe that education was THE KEY to success. We were told to just get the best education we could and worry about paying for it later. And maybe this was okay advice from our Boomer parents who attended college in smaller numbers than we did and at a significantly cheaper price, but it has come back to bite us hard. We followed that advice, got great educations, went deeply into debt and are now finding ourselves faced with the worst economy and job market in generations. I don’t think anyone really could have seen that coming, and I’m not blaming anyone, because I was among those dumb 17 year olds who chose an expensive education over a cheaper one.
I agree with Melissa above — a B.A. or B.S. or even a Master’s degree is no longer what it used to be — a guarantee of a good job. But students still somehow go into college thinking that once they graduate with a degree, they’ll be beating off employers with a stick. But that’s not the case, not anymore. The world has changed. I also agree that many students still seem to be very entitled about their prospects. Is this the consequence of a generation brought up winning participation trophies for showing up to a soccer game? I’m not a sociologist, so I can’t say for sure. I also 100% agree with Heather above. The system of government backed student loans is far out of hand. It’s a viscous cycle: everyone thinks they should go to college (when it’s obviously not a good fit for everyone and there are other options, like trade and vocational schools), the government offers easily accessible loans to get students through and colleges can just keep raising tuition because they know all students who really want to will find a way to come and pay, and they’ll do this by essentially mortgaging their futures. This system IS corrupt and I too fear the day when it collapses. We cannot continue to send graduates out into the world as deeply in debt as they are. They don’t buy houses or cars. They put off getting married and having children. They don’t save enough because their loan payments are crushing each month. It’s not healthy for the economy and something needs to change. I also agree that if you’re not paying off your loans one bitter month at a time for the next 20 years or so, you may have a harder time fully appreciating just how much your education was “worth.” And I say this as someone with 2 degrees who is 60k in the hole.
Sorry to ramble on. Student loans, and the easy distribution of them as though they were Monopoly money, is a big thorn in my paw. To the original topic: I feel like I make the world a better place. I run student history programs for my state and everything I do promotes history education. I love seeing students win at a history contest and getting excited about their primary source research. It’s a great feeling.
A. I want your job.
B. Yes, the economy is going to crap because of student loans. I would love to buy a house and spend money on dumb crap I don’t need (yet stimulates the economy). But I pay $1500 a month in student loans. I have very little savings and I often worry if I will every be able to afford children. I certainly know I will never be able to stay home with them unless I marry a billionaire (not likely). I also get scare about the my future spouse and I decide to buy a house. Will my debt ruin that dream? It’s a bad situation.
FYI that home ownership doesn’t have to be a “must-have” in your future. My husband I have consciously decided to spend 15% of our income on rent & 15% on investment instead of 30% on a mortgage (+ whatever it will cost for home repairs). We feel like we are growing our money instead of incurring debt that may or may not lead to a big payoff in the future. Just my $0.02 from a very happy renter!
What I do does make the world a better place and that’s why I do it. I am a Program Manager for two different government agencies. Both programs deal with safety issues and how to prevent them. One program is about working to prevent unintentional childhood injury, the leading cause of death and disability for children ages 1 to 14. I cover two local counties. The other is about traffice safety in one county.
I have a passion for safety. Yes, I am a Safety Geek and proud of it! I feel so lucky to go to a job everyday that I love.
I completely agree with you on how some people have $60,000 loans on a BA where they can’t find a good paying job. You’re right. If you can’t afford it, go to community college and then go to a state school. I also don’t understand why some people don’t work while they are in school. I worked as a waitress all thought my bachelors and I worked full time when I completed my masters, in my field. I have a friend that has $120,000 in student loans cause she borrowed money to live on and didn’t work while she was in school. She does have a good job now, but has a crap ton of loans to pay off. I just think she should have worked during her 6 years of school to pay for at least the cost of living. They give way to much money to people for student loans now. I think they should just cover books and tuition. I know I was fortunate, but drowning in a sea of debt and not having a job where you can afford a mortgage like payment doesn’t seem like it is worth it to me
I do have to say that I worked full time during all three of my degrees. It was fine for undergraduate and I made enough to live on and I had almost no student loans coming out. Unfortunately graduate school was much more expensive and when I moved here to get my doctorate, the only full time job I could find paid $18,000 a year. I lived very cheaply, but that still barely covers rent and bills, much less tuition. So I have a ton of money I have to pay back. That is my choice though. I chose to go back to get two graduate degrees and now I pay for it. Not ideal, but it is what I chose.
I think it also depends on your field. I mean if your are in the medical field you obviously can’t work during school but 150k in loans will be paid off quickly because your salary is so high. If you go into social work with 100k in loans you’re screwed.
I agree that if you want a a career that’s not going to give you a great salary then going into massive amounts of debt is a bad idea. But nobody ever SAID that to me. No parent, teacher, guidance counselor. And I was pretty clear, even in college, about what I wanted to do. No one said “the non profit sector isn’t known for paying a lot of money, maybe you should choose a state school.” Frankly, I’m a little bitter about it. I was 17 and had worked part-time jobs all through high school so I didn’t have a great grasp on what the “Real World” was like.
I’d also like to add that working while your in school is great but not always possible. My college was in a very economically depressed area. I couldn’t get a job in the tiny town, and I tried. I also didn’t have a car and thus was limited only to places where I could walk. So it’s great in theory and if you go to a school in a city or somewhere with public transportation, but it isn’t always possible.
Above, where I say “college” I mean “high school.”
THIS.
I worked throughout undergrad and graduate school, and though I still have a ridiculous amount of loans from graduate school, it is a far smaller number than it would have been had I only been a student.
I’ve been criticized in my program for taking on positions that don’t improve my resume (such as serving, barista-ing and nannying) because that means I spent hours each week NOT networking in my field. I think they’re all bananas and have no idea how much money they could be saving if they’d just pick up a job outside of our field.
Very few people can expect to be a “full-time student” these days and not suffer some serious consequences in the form of loans afterwards. Loans are not the devil (humans use them in so many forms ALL THE TIME), but it’s really all about moderation.
While in college, I volunteered with Habitat for Humanity, which ended up changing my life. I made it a life goal to work for H4H at some point in my life.
Now that I do work at H4H, I love it. I have to sometimes remind myself that what I do directly impacts the amount of homes built, because there are days when I wonder what impact I actually have, but that’s what gets me through my day. There is actually a sign on the inside of the doors, that says “tonight, 800 people will sleep in decent, affordable homes because of you” [it's a little outdated]. It brings a smile to my face. It’s hard to remember that sitting in a cubicle all day has that impact.
Habitat has always been such a great thing in my life, that I didn’t realize how many people judged it until I took this job. I’ve had numerous conversations with people because they think that we just build houses for those who don’t need it; I can’t tell you what kind of gut-wrenching feeling of disgust I get when someone starts on this. Really, it’s just ignorance. If they knew all the details, I don’t think they would have the same view.
Anyways, I do believe I make a positive impact on the world.. I just wish more people saw it that way!
Hell yes! I love H4H!!! I did a lot of volunteer time with them while I as in college. And I agree, I never worked on a project for a family that I didn’t think really really needed that home.
I’m not surprised that petroleum engineers are on the list… I’m a chemical engineer and in most parts of the country, that means working for big oil in some way. I’m really grateful that I have been able to get work in the environmental field. While the day-to-day work doesn’t make me feel like I’m making the world a better place, looking at the big picture does. The projects I work on are removing contaminants/toxins from groundwater to prevent the general populations’ exposure… pretty cool!
That is cool! And hey, if we didn’t have big oil, I couldn’t drive to work.
Ha! Me either… but using gas is less ethically painful for me than producing it, for some reason :)
I just did some research on petroleum and gas engineers and I was surprised to learn how many of the trade publications spin it as “adventure” bc you are travelling to “exotic” locations and doing “hard science.” I couldn’t help giggling a bit since it just doesn’t jive with the public perception of these industries.
Great post!
I am a first gen working on my BS. I am pursuing medical school in the future and every once in a while I freak out and think, “OMG 300k in debt.. is it worth it..?!” In the end, doing what makes you happy in 10, 20, etc years is worth it.
I also get irritated by the vast number of graduates complaining that, “My degree did nothing for me! I am unemployed! I am X in debt! I want my money back!” A degree doesn’t come with a job- it’s just not that simple. Plenty of idiots have college degrees! (Esp. when you get a degree in, say, philosophy or art- something not for useful in the world of jobs.) Last fall, there was some stupid, “OCCUPY!!!!” protest at my school. This one guy who had graduated 2-3 years prior came and was making a big speech about how much higher ed has screwed him over. To dramatize everything, he burned his diploma at the end. Subsequent news stories were written with his name in them, which I’m sure really helped his quest for work.
All of these students who were there were cheering him on and it was the most ridiculous thing, because none of them were dropping out of their classes or doing anything to get whatever it was they wanted. What was the point?
Several things:
1. How are you possibly old enough to have 10 years anywhere??? I call shenanigans.
2. I completely agree 100% about the value of higher ed. I’m in PA and we are also experiencing a new Gov with the priorities of a chimp who wants to cut funding to public institutions all while requiring more from them and cutting student aid. Doesn’t make much sense, especially because PA has so many great schools that we’re home to a LOT of kids from other states/nations getting their educations here. I don’t understand how officials want you all to do more with less — it’s hard. I commend everything you and your industry is doing to educate young people and raise overall aptitude of American citizens. I also believe that the experience I had in college — the intangibles — was and will be more than the degree I earned.
3. I went — selfishly, I suppose — to a private college. The actual cost is somewhere near $50k/year now there, but I managed to go for about $4k with scholarships and work study and some need-based grants due to my mother’s (lack of) income. I know I am incredibly fortunate for that and I do not b*tch about my student loans one bit. I pay them off dutifully as a debt I owe. (Although, admittedly, I might feel differently if I was unemployed). I got assistance from my dad to go to grad school (a one-year program), but he expects I’ll pay him back the $9k he gave me (again, scholarships and work study covered the rest). Both of my degrees are in Political Science and I kinda knew when I picked that I might have some difficultly landing a (good-paying) job. But, I also knew that I really wouldn’t be happy spending my time studying or working doing something else. This is called making adult choices. Risks, etc. My parents told me that going to college would improve my chances, but I don’t think they deluded me into believing it was set in stone that I would be making bank, living the good life just because I survived 4 years of college.
4. I’m currently working as a lobbyist (we like to call ourselves government affairs/relations professionals) at the state level for a trade association of insurance agents. Do I believe I make the world a better place? Not really. I mean, I suppose I do for insurance agents, but on the whole, I’m part of the problem. I like my work and overall it’s enjoyable, but I don’t see myself at this job or even in this field forever. I hope to put my talents to better use as my career progresses.
5. And I guess this might fall under “advertising”, but I’m surprised sales/marketing people didn’t come up. No, I do not want to buy your product/service/whatever. Stop calling me. No offense to anyone out there, but I also do not want to go to your home jewelry/food/tupperware/purse/lotion/sex toy party. If I want those things, I’ll buy them from a store where there 100% cheaper and I don’t have to sit all awkwardly in someone’s house getting pressured to buy.
sorry, that should say $4k/year
1. I started college in the fall of 2002 and I also started work at the university library. I haven’t worked at the same place for 10 years (or in the same area) because I don’t still live in Lubbock. But I have worked at a university since 2002 with the exception of the summer between finishing my master’s and starting my doctorate. I worked for a city rec center then. But in terms of state service, in September I will have 10 years!
And I would imagine working to constantly push a product on people who don’t want it would be misery. Like those people trying to attack you with lotion at the kiosks in the mall.
I know you have a doctorate too so you can most likely relate to this. I’m almost done with my PhD in Biomedical Sciences-essentially I create new anticancer drugs. I love my work BUT working for shit and not getting properly compensated during grad school is really really not motivating. I completely understand those that do not finish the program or drop out- I feel like my work will absolutely help people but it is very difficult to work for free and struggle to pay my bills every month and I do not think there is 100% job security in just having an advanced degree.
End rant.
I should also mention that by “working for free” I meant that I get pain about $13,000/year with a tuition waiver. The thing about the “hard sciences” in grad school is that it really is a full time job and my contract states that I cannot hold outside employment during the course of my doctorate.
Although, I have found a way around this-I clean toilets on the weekends for money under the table. So it definitely makes me feel a bit bitter about loving my job and really feeling like I’m fulfilling a necessary need in my research field but having to do a really not so fun job on the weekends.
I love that you’re so passionate about your job and the value of a good education- I am too. And it’s funny that you specifically mention a degree in psychology as being one of the more…difficult… degrees to have when job hunting. I’m just finishing mine this summer, and believe me I have absolutely no doubt that it’s going to be difficult to find even an ‘OK’ paying job in this line of work- which is why I’m going to grad school this fall- but I chose this. I remember making the decision when switching majors 2 years ago- the choice was either have a high paying job that bored me to tears which technical crap, OR spend a lot more time AND money (going to school longer) to get a degree which will enable me to have, not only the flexibility I desire, but also to work in a field that I’m passionate about- like FIERY passionate about. The choice was easy, and I’m spending close to $60,000 (total, not too bad- college really is affordable if you know what you’re doing) to make it a reality.
Then there’s this whole making the world a better place thing- heck yes that’s what I’m aiming for- one person at a time. I’m continually surprised that some people would choose money money and more money over, oh I don’t know, contributing to society, enjoying your career, yadda yadda yadda- you know, the important things. My ex is one of those people who would burn down trees if that would make him (you guessed it) MORE money (and he wonders why we didn’t last), I just don’t get it.
I worked full-time through college, ended up with only about $5,000 in student loans, and I took as many classes as possible to graduate early. I wanted a degree because I was taught that I needed one. I got it in psychology, by the way ;) ‘Cuz it was one of the few majors that didn’t make me cry. I knew full well I would never do anything with it except secretly psychologize my family and friends for my own entertainment :) But college is more than just education – it’s an experience. I made a couple of lifelong friends, made up for all the partying I didn’t do in high school, made some careless (read: fun) choices, joined a sorority, and got a taste of dorm life and how to live with someone else. If someone feels their money was “wasted” by getting higher a education, I say they didn’t make the effort. I got invaluable life experience out of college. And I was the first person on my dad’s side of the family to even go to college. Breaking that cycle, and witnessing the pride that my dad and grandpa felt was priceless :)
I currently work for an insurance company. It’s a good, solid, ethical company. We make good on our promise to pay, and I’m proud of that. I design forms… a monkey could do my job :) But I’m pretty good at it, and it pays the bills, so I’m proud of myself :) And even though there are people in this job that didn’t go to college, and make the same amount of money as I do, I don’t regret my degree for a second. It was so much more than an education; it was three and a half years of life lessons :)
Since we’re talking about education, I’d just like to add- SERIOUSLY? With the complicated system the public school system employs?? And seriously with the lack of funding?!? I’ve attended both public and private universities and I swear the public university is THE most inefficient mess of a ‘business’ I have EVER dealt with- then again what do I expect when I’m paying $36.00 a unit (California community college)- That’s the full price for unfinanced kids, UNHEARD of in other states. Something I’m willing to deal with for the price- but seriously?!?! I’d almost rather pay the extra hundreds of dollars to get in and get out with less hassle.
It is a mess and when you have the state and the federal government telling you 900 things to do 900 different ways and changing those things each year, there isn’t any way for it not to be a disaster.
Agree. We should take governments out of Education. Federal government have no business in education whatsoever, and State government only function in Education should be to prevent fraud and ensure safety.
If is education is worth something then the students/parents should pay for it. Let the college prove they worth to attract students.
I have a few things to add to this discussion. I am a lawyer and think that I agree with you re: student loans for undergrad but I think a huge problem with the legal profession is that people are taking out sometimes up to 200k is student debt thinking they can get a high paying legal job when in reality there are no jobs and an overly saturated legal market. esp when in 2008 all the large law firm started rescinding their offers and left people unemployed. and often times the schools manipulated their “employment after graduation” figures.
anyway, on to the other topic about making the world a better place. i agree they should have distinguished between types of a lawyers. I work in corporate law and I undoubtedly make the world a much much worse place. But…I am a selfish ass and I like the paycheck.
I was scrolling through the comments to post about this. With law schools, you can go into crazy debt, but you also get what you pay for–if you shell out $200k for a degree from Yale, you will get very, very different job offers than you will if you go to a smaller school. The problem right now is that there are fewer jobs, and while the economy’s been in decline schools have been either playing up older figures or in some cases, being pretty dishonestly misleading about employment chances post-graduation. So there are students who have gone “wow, this is a lot of debt to take on, but it’s an investment that will pay off when I can graduate and get one of those lucrative jobs the careers office has all those statistics about,” and then the jobs just aren’t there.
Great topic. I constantly think about this with the field I’m in. I’m getting my Masters in Social Work, for my career in international adoption. Half of my job is awesome, I get to help create families and teach parents about a different culture (my passion). But the other half of my job involves ripping another family apart and providing a child with profound loss. I volunteer in Ethiopia every year and it’s amazing how many mothers will come up to me on the street and beg me to take their baby. Because I’m white and a foreigner, so they believe I can take much better care of their child than they can. It’s heartbreaking. Many families voluntarily relinquish their children to orphanages in hopes of them being adopted by an American or European family.
I’m hoping to eventually move on to working in a field that prevents the need for adoption. Don’t get me wrong, adoption is beautiful, but I’d love to be able to help prevent some of these kiddos from being orphaned.
Now you DEFINITELY make the world a better place.
Oh and I don’t know if you heard about this, but it sounds pretty cool. Chicago is opening 5 public high schools that kids will go to for 6 years and graduate with an associates degree. Companies like Cisco and Microsoft will help with the curriculum and mentor the kids as well. Yay for education!
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/6-Year-High-Schools-to-Open-in-Fall–140859813.html
Wow, reading all the comments makes me sad. And also extremely thankful, since higher education is practically free here in Norway (we pay $100 a semester to cover printing etc.). How you all get through higher education with those tuition fees is beyond me. How can you afford to buy a house??
You just voiced so many things I’m struggling with too. I think I’d fall into that 1% who think their job is making the world I worse place. I don’t want to tout it on the internet, or diss my industry because not every part of my industry is bad. I just wanted to say, thank you for writing that last paragraph. I need some motivation to find something new and I am slowly finding it, but you writing that really helped. I think what you do is wonderful and appreciate your advocating higher education. I 100% agree with the benefits outside the actual knowledge gained you mentioned and am glad there is someone out there like you pressing the importance of higher education.
I believe each job has a necessary evil attached to it. Colleges and University’s are awesome, however tuition and book prices are absolutely insane. I work in the entertainment industry (no I’m not a stripper or a pimp) and I know my job has positives and negatives. Positive, being able to spread a message to youngin’s…negative’s perceiving an image that money can buy you happiness and that being like me is cool. I think as American’s we take things to a higher level, we are consumed with image and self righteousness. That’s the problem with society. Every kid I meet today thinks they are entitled to success. Uh last time I checked success comes with dedication.sacrifice, and hard work. I believe you can make it in this world without higher education, but I don’t think its necessarily the smartest move. TAKE THAT CELY BO BELLY!
In the risk of going off onto a political rant, college makes people snobs! The last thing we want in America is a bunch of people so educated they know you are fucking them over, er, I mean, snobs!
Bwahhahahahahaha! Thanks for that one Nicole. :)
I honestly struggle with this topic all the time. I’m a high school teacher for ESL students. My husband is a chiropractor. He’s a DOCTOR for crying out loud and I make more money than him. He has over $100,000 in school loans to pay off. He loves being a chiropractor and helping people but with the insurance situation, it’s really hard for him to make much money. He’d have to work 60-70 hours a week to make as much as I do and I work 9 months a year. Sure, my job is tough sometimes when the students are annoying but after 12 years of experience, I’ve pretty much figured things out. And yes, I lucked out by getting a job at an awesome school district but I also worked hard to get my Masters to make sure I was “hirable”.
Also – I look at some of my immigrant students. For many of them…they’ll be the first of their family to graduate from HS. Some of them can’t read and may never be able to read. There are quite a few people in this world who may never be able to read easily. BUT, maybe they are really good at fixing motors or landscaping or something else that might not requite much extra schooling. I don’t think everyone NEEDS to go to college but I’m 100% in agreement with you – USUALLY having some higher learning helps people in the long run…and that’s what I tell my students. GO to community college!
Yes, there are so many very valuable jobs in society that need to be done by people with skills. Skills that college is worthless for. But, I do believe people need a basic education just for the ability to communicate. To know enough math to determine if you are getting screwed and if you received the correct change. To read well enough to fill out an application. That sort of thing.
That use to be the job of HIGH school. The really should change the term because it is not high school anymore. Students barely know how to read after high school.
As a professor at a CC, I could not agree more with your views on education. I feel it is so vital, and I dedicate my classes to doing exactly what you say: giving students skills and opportunities to think critically. I really believe this can change how a person interacts with the world.
The purpose of what I do (as I see it) is actually NOT to find people jobs or make them employable. Obviously, I hope my students never live in poverty. However, I truly believe that being able to THINK, READ, and EVALUATE the world around you–to be able to ask questions–is far more important than “job training.” If you can think, you can change the world. If you have a skillset but cannot think critically, all you can do is fit into what already exists.
I do believe in the value of what I do. I’m highly idealistic, and if I didn’t believ in it, I couldn’t do it.
P.S. My degrees are in English. Not exactly “marketable.” But I don’t regret it for a second (and I worked several years making about $20,000 for 70-80 hour weeks as an adjunct).
Bingo to everything you said. There is not anyone who could have trained me how to do my job except for my supervisor. What I learned in college about research, data analysis, and critical thinking is what enables me to learn and do my job.
I’ve worked in Higher Ed (doing Marketing/ PR for a community college, although technically part-time) for the past 2 years since graduating from undergrad and the experience has really made me believe in the institution. Our students come to us for so many reasons and it constantly inspires me: they’re adults who worked in an industry for 30 years, were laid off and now can’t even apply to similar positions because they don’t have a degree; adults or young adults who are re-careering and picking CE professions like Dental Hygienist, HVAC, Nursing Assistant so they can find a job and support their family; students who can’t afford to go to a 4-year institution yet and make the most out of their experience; retirees who never want to stop learning; and people from all ages and demographics seeking their GED to at least get a start in the world. Every day I’m surrounded by success stories and people who have a better life because of the college. And I love working in Higher Ed because my colleagues tend to be excited to be working in such a dynamic and helpful environment.
On the flip side, as someone who holds a BA, the rising cost of education really does create a dent in our debt. The economy took a turn halfway into my learning and I wonder if I knew then what I know now if I hadn’t tried a little harder or been more involved during my college career. I’m almost jealous of the insight these new college goers will have.
Btw, what is your PhD in?
Just noticed I never answered this, it is in Educational Leadership in Higher Education! Sorry!
This is all so interesting (your post and everyone’s comments). I have a BA in Management (Well, I went to an arts school and the full name is Arts, Entertainment, and Media Management with a concentration in Performing Arts Management), but when I was applying for jobs in my city, they were few and far between. It’s really who you know, more than your educational background. I had a couple of phone interviews for jobs in NYC, but they were a joke. The salary was so tiny, no benefits, and a big disappointment for me. I’m not one to throw caution to the wind and just move to a big(ger) city and hope for the best, so I just made out with administrative jobs, that suck my soul of self-worth and value.
I actually just enrolled in an online nutrition program, so hopefully down the line I will be able to make the world a better place, one person’s plate at a time. :)
Very interesting post today, Cely! You got me thinking. I completely agree with your views on higher education. Going to college helped me to see the world in a new and different way. Having grown up in a small town in a lower middle class family, that was really valuable to me, maybe more so than my actual degree. I’m not sure higher education for everyone; if you don’t want it, and you can have the life and job you want without it, then fine. Generally speaking though, I think higher education is a really good idea.
So, education and job satisfaction are things I’ve been thinking about a lot over the last few years. I’m currently a Supply Corps officer in the Navy. Specifically, I work in business and financial management. I love the Navy as a whole, but I’ve come to really hate my job! When I was on the ship, I felt like I (and the crew) made the world a better place. I believe in the mission of the Navy, and I was glad to have an opportunity to contribute to it. Also, being a division officer, I was directly in charge of many young Sailors. Leading them, making sure their needs were met and they were advancing was very rewarding. Now I’m on shore duty. I’m not in charge of anyone; I balance budgets for DOD programs (meaning, I rearrange Excel spreadsheets all day long) and I’m bored to death. It’s nice to be back on shore with my family, but I don’t feel like I make the world a better place through my work. I’m not sure my work has any impact whatsoever, actually, which is a crappy feeling to go home with every night.
After 6 years on active duty, I’ve decided to leave the Navy. For me, a job is not just a job. I want to do something that utilizes my interests and strengths, and I want to be happy at work (most of the time) if I’m going to spend so much of my life there. When I was first out of college and needed a job, I was willing to try just about anything to earn a decent wage. Now I’m a little older, a little wiser. I’m no longer willing to do something boring and stressful just for the paycheck. Now I want more from my job.
I will say that the Navy has changed my life in many positive ways, and I’m so thankful for the experience. My BA is in English; I couldn’t find a job straight out of college that capitalized on it directly, but it did get me into the Navy as an officer. The fact that I had a degree (any degree) was good enough for them; they trusted me in a position of leadership and responsibility, paid well, gave me insurance. They gave me innumerable work and life experiences, which I needed as a young twenty-something. They set me on a path to success and gave me a life when I was struggling to pay my bills. I’m a better person for having been in the Navy, and I recommend military service to everyone.
Still, I feel like it’s time to find a job that’s more “me”. And what do you think I’m going to do first? I’m going back to school for a master’s! I won’t get the same things out of college this time around; I’m 30 years old, I’ve been around the world, I know what it’s all about and what’s out there, but I think a graduate degree is the best way for me to transition to a new career and be competitive.
Going to school is never easy, but I think it’s all about your priorities. I went to community college and then transferred to a state school to finish my BA. I worked full time. It was hard, but it was doable. After college, I needed a job and the military was hiring. I knew that they would help me go back to school if I decided to get a graduate degree later, which appealed to me. Now I’m ready for grad school, and it’s being paid for by the GI Bill. In sum, I agree that the knowledge and experienced gained from going to college is incalculable. I think the same can be said for the military. Where there’s a will, there’s a way. Everybody (yes, everybody) has options. You may not like your options when you’re young and first starting out, but we’ve all been there. Nothing worth doing is ever easy; you have to fight for the things that you want in life!
That’s awesome! And I’m so glad you are able to use the GI Bill!! I think that is one of the best decisions the government ever made. Good luck!!!
I’ve heard it said that a similar thing to the housing market is happening in higher education. Lenders are making it far too easy for students to take out loans they have no hope of repaying and it’s all going to blow up in our faces eventually.
It’s a fact that college tuition has risen disproportionately with the average graduate’s income since our parent’s generation. It’s NOT as affordable as it was back then. Students cannot be expected to work full time and pay for their education. Even at a state school, even if they do 2 years of community college.
Whether it’s that the schools raise tuition because they know the lenders will supply the money or vice versa, it’s an impossible situation that needs to be resolved.
Yes. Tuition is astronomical. How people get out of college debt free is beyond me. When I was working on my doctorate I was offered close to $60,000 a year in loans. I obviously didn’t take that, but holy jeez. That is insane. And that was even offered when I made enough money to cover most of my tuition. And of course you “think” you will be able to handle the payments or defer long enough until you get a job where you can. But that doesn’t happen. $1000 out of a paycheck is too large a chunk to survive on if you make less than $40,000.
Amen.
And I just love it when my university calls me every other week to ask for MORE money for the current students. Um, no. Maybe once I get Sallie Mae off my back.
I think that it isn’t really WHAT you do but HOW you do it that is important. It’s about the company values and practices… and yours. And you are right, they should give some details about the answers, there is no context.
I feel appealed to comment about the value of education subject. I do have two degrees that are pretty much useless for me now. After I was done with school, I found nothing but precarious jobs, ridiculous salary and the worst work conditions…. Some even demeaning. I won’t go over with the details, just to say I had no luck. I now moved on to a different field. I don’t regret my choices nor the time and money spent in my education and, as much as is it cliché to say, I wouldn’t be who I am without it. However I have no interest in getting another degree or higher education level without been assured that it will serve me professionally… I like to study, but not that much!
Hmmm. Things just go REAL on RotR! :-D I would say I don’t think my job makes the world a better place but I don’t think it makes the world a worse place. I do research at a communications agency, but with my degree (MLIS) I could be doing work (for less) at a library or archive, which I DO think makes the world a better place. So I am a bit conflicted about that… Also my agency is AWESOME & was started by 2 amazing entrepreneurial women who ARE making a difference and using the profit from this company to employ men and women in parts of the world that badly need employment & give pro bono work to nonprofits all the time, so, in a roundabout way, I guess by contributing to the company’s bottom line I AM contributing to that… Again, super conflicted about my job. I don’t think it helps that my father is a pastor, my mother is a teacher and my 2 brothers are a doctor and physicist who truly ARE making the world a better place. Damn being raised in a service oriented family!
About college education. I am a strong advocate FOR. I don’t regret any of my debt and got a good paying job directly bc of it. If I hadn’t gone to graduate school I wouldn’t have met people in the industry who wouldn’t have allowed me to get my first entry level job, etc. etc. That being said… My husband does not have a college degree and makes a very comfortable paycheck w/o it. He isn’t anti-college but he thinks it’s unnecessary for many people and just plain a bad fiscal decision for others. We DO agree that the single best thing about colleges is the networking opportunity. You meet people who could potentially help you get a job in the future (or their dad could help you get a job in the case of ivy league schools). My husband is pretty good networker on his own and an avid reader, so, for the most part, I think not getting a college degree was the right decision for him.
Wow, sorry for the all the WORDS. But I guess I’m passionate about this topic!
What an interesting topic. I teach Special Education and I work part-time as a behavior therapist. I really do think I make the world a better place. It’s funny because every day I tell my children they have been given the choice to make the world better, make it worse or leave it the same. I encourage them to make it better. I think education is really important, but what I can understand is that traditional education may not be the path for everyone. I really appreciate that some people are better served by technical schools and other avenues to achieve a fulfilling career path. I really do think that you are spot on about the educational experience. It is less about the actual knowledge gained and more about the journey along the way. Some of the best things I learned in college had less to do with the professors and more to do with the experience of the journey. There are a lot of life lessons that I learned. In grad school I learned a lot more substance, but still there were some life lessons that were unmistakably some of the best things that I got out of grad school. I learned how to work with others and collaborate in a way that I never have before.
As far as the job market goes, it’s tough out there with or without a degree. I do like to think that those of us who’ve taken the time to develop ourselves professionally will be rewarded at the end of the day, but I also feel like my education was worth it anyway. I can attest to this very personally because I transferred universities part way through my grad school program and some of the coursework I took didn’t transfer, but I always felt it was absolutely positively a very valuable experience.
I’d also like to add that it is absolutely important to me that I do my part to make the world a better place everyday, but I think that can be done regardless of what one does for employment. We make a choice to leave the world affected in a positive way and our jobs are only one way we can choose to do that.
I’m appalled at how small of a percentage of workers in a few of those industries actually thought it was making the world worse. I mean, bravo to the self-aware fast food workers, but what is going on with the tobacco manufacturers? Only 16%? I can see how in a lot of those other industries there are some positives, but in what way is tobacco not making the world worse?
Well as someone mentioned before, it does employ a lot of people.
If you want to see an interesting rant about education check Seth Godin’s new ebook out:
http://www.sethgodin.com/sg/docs/StopStealingDreamsSCREEN.pdf
It’s pretty amazing.
Love Seth!!
Great post. Let’s start with the education: I have a B.S. in Geology from a public univ in Mississippi. I grew up in another state. Please hold the comments about that “they have public schools in Mississippi?” I’ve heard them all and they aren’t funny. Shit wasn’t any easier there.
I have worked for 16 years doing environmental stuff — first as a consultant to businesses and now for a branch of government, both roles involved cleaning up contamination. Could I do what I do without a degree? No, professional registration requirements, bla bla bla. Do I enjoy what I do? Most days. Some times it’s just a job but sometimes there is that awesome feeling about helping the greater good. It’s not all sunshine and rainbows. Being accused of “government conspiracies” and “lies” and belittled by others is frustrating. But it’s always different, has a large amount of variety, many interesting characters, uses a good amount of brain power so for me, I enjoy it. I more or less wandered into a field that worked perfectly for me, again, I feel extremely fortunate for that.
Is higher education for everyone? I’m going to say no. I think continual education on a personal level — be it hobbies, passions, etc is vital for brain growth and health, though, if that makes sense.
Anyway, I wrote too much. I still need to set up a blog with “Ask a Geologist” question portal.
I teach first graders how to read! I think my job is extremely valuable…obviously literacy is empowering. Churches realize it (umm…that’s why kids had to learn to read in the first place, for the Bible) and slave owners realized it (since, you know, they banned slaves from learning to read). Now, I sure don’t make a lot of money doing it (according to Alabama State Senator Shadrack McGill, God doesn’t think educators should make much money), but it is pretty powerful to lay the foundation for the future tobacco salesmen, public defenders, bartenders, and fashion designers of the world.
And, side note, I’m super excited to be a Dr. Fullofshit in a few years! My PhD in Reading Education starts this fall!!
Another Alabama teacher here! :)
I work at one of the world’s leading genetic research laboratories so I definitely think I am helping to make the world a better place. I would still do my job even if it were not making the world better (a woman’s got to pay the bills somehow!) but it helps on days where everything is going shitty and you wish you could just lay in bed all day to know that what you are doing really matters. As for education I am one of those rare examples where I am doing quite well (30 years old, making 50k a year, 50k in my 403B, a healthy personal savings account,etc) despite having no college degree. However, I have reached the point where I feel like I may be headed for a ceiling if I do not get a degree. Thankfully the institution I work for offers tuition reimbursement so I have enrolled in a local college that caters to non- traditional students. It sucks working full time and going to school, and it is going to take me about 6 years just to get my BA, but I really feel like it will be worth it.
P.S. I absolutely love your blog! You are by far my favorite running/lifestyle blog. I live on the coast of Maine so it always amuses me when you talk about how relieved you are that it is winter time and you can finally run outside!
I work in higher ed too. I don’t necessarily tell people no a lot*, but I do have to enforce the program’s policies and feel like I do a lot of nagging. In the end though, I do feel there’s a lot of value as the students in the program (all science, mainly first generation, low income) end up doing much better in their fields than those who are not in the program. It’s cool to see them a few years later applying to grad school and getting funded for their work.
I also work as a research assistant. There the impact is harder to see and takes a little more time to become policy and impact people. It’s probably why I’m less invested in that aspect.
I feel like a lot of the people who argue about the value of a college education are (a) professionals with a degree or two, and (b) come from families where their parent(s) had a college education. They’re likely not first generation or grew up poor/working poor. It’s one of my main critiques of the question, because where I look there’s no question that continuing education beyond high school (which isn’t a given for a lot of communities) is a big part of social mobility.
*I hate having to turn away students from the program, because there are so many who can use it. Alas, we have limited funding.
A million times yes. The impact of a degree on those kids lives is dramatic. It’s not like they are finishing college and are sad they don’t start at $60000. They have a chance to not live in poverty, to know that they will be able to afford food all month, to actually have proper healthcare and insurance coverage. It is a huge life changer. My mom was a first generation college student from a very rural and poor family who often went without food. Her life and lifestyle is so dramatically different than her siblings that did not go to college or a trade school. it’s really quite sad.
I will have to come back and finish reading all of the comments on here but I wanted to quickly give my input, for all it’s are worth.
I grew up in a small Texas town, went to a large Texas university – which was my last choice after my parents refused to pay (ahem – cosign loans) for private colleges in the Northeast. I was mad but honestly, six years out of college, I am so glad they sent me to public school. And I’m so glad I don’t have the debt I would have otherwise had. And going to a large university exposed me to so many experiences and people I doubt I would have otherwise met.
I work in the Northeast now, doing a job completely unrelated to my degree, working with people who graduated from the Ivy leagues and other private higher education institutions. They all have a same job as me, their expensive education did not get them a ‘better’ job than my public school education did. Nor are they better at what they do. We all have highly analytical jobs that require extremely fine-tuned reading, writing and problem-solving skills. That said, only a few of us are doing work related to what our degrees are in but we all love it and we all excel at what we do.
Speaking of, I whole-heartedly believe that my job betters the world (at least in the US). I work in healthcare IT, trying to make it simpler for doctors to get paid so they can spend more time with the patients and less time handling the red tape of insurance companies. I’m not curing sick people but what I do allows the people who are specialists to spend the time doing what they are trained to do. It’s challenging, full of change, and I absolutely love it.
I have a few points about this very interesting discussion. First, I teach Kindergarten and it’s WAY beyond the Kindergarten of my days. It’s no longer seed in a cup and painting butterflies. I teach kids, half Hispanic, how to read and speak the English language. When they leave us, they must be reading on a mid-first grade reading level in May. I started teaching first grade 12 years ago. What I was teaching then is exactly what I’m teaching now. Some kids are ready for the intense reading and math standards. Some kids are not. In the area of the state I live, we have a high Hispanic population. The kids are born here, so they are legal citizens and the parents (many who are not legal) VALUE education more than families who came on the Mayflower. So yes, I do love my job and feel that I’m making a difference every day I drive to work. We are a low income school and I’m a “momma” to many of my kids.
Second, student loans are insane. I have my Masters and would love to start a doctorate but we are paying the equivalent of a house payment in my student loans. But I am definitely using my degrees.
Third, I think we have made a huge mistake in assuming EVERY person needs to go to a two or four year college for a degree. We have done a disservice to kids who are more geared for a trade track. And we need skilled tradesmen/tradeswomen. My husband got his 4 year in Business. After he graduated, he changed his mind about wearing suits and working numbers. He went 2 semesters of night school and got his electrician’s license. He’s now working at a prime steel mill working with his hands making twice what I make..which is how we are making a house payment and the same amount to student loans. There is no way we could do that if he was working at a tech or stock firm. He could have skipped the 4 years at college altogether. And as a teacher, we can see kids in the 5th grade down the hall who would love to build houses but feel like they would be losers if they didn’t go to college. Many of them, if they make it through 12th grade would be the first ones in their families to go and they feel pressured to take on loans and study for something they don’t feel passionate about. I think other countries have a good idea in having a skill/trade track and a college track.
This whole making the world a better place is something I’ve been struggling with. As I approach the end of my second year of law school, I’m starting to panic that I’m not going to find a job that gives me a sense of fulfillment, which for me would come from a sense of giving back. It’s hard because often times those types of legal jobs don’t pay as much and law school isn’t cheap. Plus, I also fall under the ‘first generation college student’ category. That fact makes it hard not to pursue the highest paying job, because bettering my economic situation was the driving force behind the higher education to begin with. Well, thanks for the post. Definitely something that hit home.
I definitely am going to e-mail you at some point because I’ve had the same argument countless times over the past year and need to actually talk to someone with coherent thoughts before I kill someone!
I definitely agree that higher education is needed and without it our country simply won’t be able to compete in this ever-changing global market. However, I also strongly believe that not everyone needs to attend a four-year university as many try to push. There are so many options, it’s a matter of doing what YOU want to do. Whether that be attending the local community college for an associate’s degree and potentially going on to get your bachelor’s (or more), going to a trade school to specialize in a certain skill or the typical 4-year bachelor’s degree (terrible run on sentence, I’m sorry). I hate how people feel they NEED to go to a four year college, end up majoring in something pointless and then are saddled with student loan debt for the next 20 years with a job they don’t like making next to nothing.
Another thing I hate about the higher education argument is the rising costs of tuition. I’ve done a nominal amount of research on the subject (mainly Arizona numbers) and am astounded at how much tuition continues to rise. Have you heard of the “Penn-state model” for tuition? I’d be interested to get your opinion on it at some point. This gets into the return on your investment argument you mentioned. If you haven’t, it’s a differential tuition model and tuition varies depending on your major where everything is “fee’d out”. For example, a history major that is going to make less than $26K a year after graduation would pay less than an engineering major who is going to be making upwards of $80K in their first year after graduation. I’m definitely making it sound more complicated than it is, and I’m going to blame the 4 hours of sleep I got in 84 hours in Vegas this week.
I really think we need to put more focus on higher education and ensuring we have a viable workforce because as it stands right now, most doctorate science/math/engineering students are from overseas and end up going home when they finish leaving us with no one (whole other argument there). But I’ll end my rant for the night and maybe get some sleep :)
I graduated in May from a top 20 university with a degree ‘worth’ $250,000. My time there WAS priceless, and luckily I only have loans for 5% of that cost because of scholarship money. I wouldn’t trade my education for the world.
Unfortunately, I have no one to fall back on financially. That means that I worked during school, and 2-3 jobs during breaks to remain at my private, wonderful university to get my degree. Then, I contracted MRSA last winter. Graduate school apps were set aside while I got better and I found myself in May, holding my degree & needing to find a job when most people I knew had gone through recruitment months before.
The biggest LIE that I was told by my advisers was that grad schools/jobs would take into consideration the lack of “internship” experience I had due to all the working to make ends meet. Internships (read: unpaid) are just not an option to many people like me who–despite qualifications and even being ACCEPTED into MULTIPLE programs, could not afford to live (rent, food, transportation) while interning. And, wouldn’t you know, employers frankly DO NOT care about work ethic or personal background because when they saw my school on my resume they assumed something was wrong WITH ME because I had no internship experience. One employer I interviewed with told me to “stop lying” when I told him how hard I had to work just to stay in school as an explanation because “everyone from [my] school is well off”.
Personally, I can’t wait to go back to school to become a lawyer. For every fight I’ve had to endure is nothing like the kids in other areas of the country and world who want the same things as I do — a future. Nonprofits and developmental organizations need attorneys, too.
This is a great topic, and I can see how it would be a touchy spot for some people. I have to say that I think a lot of it is how bad you want it. I grew up with parents who were absolutely amazing in every way, but did not have money. I worked my ass off in school and I’m the first person in my family to graduate with my bachelor’s. I’m paying student loans and I’m ok with that, it’s something I wanted and something I worked for, no one can take that away from me. I’m not saying that people who don’t go to college don’t work hard, but I think if you put in your all you can do a LOT on your own.
As for my job, the job itself is a small piece of a big picture that I think is positive. I’m a financial analyst for a company that makes weapons for the military. Do I support war? Not exactly, but you can betchyerass I support our troops and I’m proud that I am a small piece of something that keeps our men and women safe overseas!
This is an awesome post. I agree with you 100% about the value of higher education. When I think about my 18 year old self that showed up as a freshman and my 22 year old self that graduated, I am amazed at my own transformation! I have a liberal arts degree in a basically useless discipline, yet somehow managed to dumb luck my way into the corporate world. I now work in the corporate office of a major chain restaurant company. Before working for my company, I would have thought a huge restaurant corporation made the world a worse place, but now that I see how many people all over the country that we provide full time jobs, benefits, and career/growth opportunities to, I have to say my mind is changed. Not to mention the delicious cheesy/meaty/carby things we provide to all.
Love this post. It’s a topic that I think so many people struggle with, but never talk about.
I’m currently in law school and I have a mental battle with myself every day. Is higher education worth it? Absolutely. But I feel certain factors of society make those of us working on getting a degree wonder if its truly “worth it”.
Myself speaking, I get frustrated mostly because of the non-stop work that just keeps flowing. I’ve worked this hard since I was in high school, either working at night, or dual enrolling in college classes. I worked my weekends in college, and gave up on any “fun” experiences. Most of it was justified because I knew that once I finished law school, I’d have time to have a little fun in my life. “Work now, play later” was my mantra.
But then the economy nose-dived. And the ABA accredited way too many schools and there is a pool of unemployed lawyers out there. There is no longer an end in sight for me. I’m no longer guaranteed to find a decent job. Instead, I’m facing the fact that after all of this hard work, I may wind up being just a clerk for a judge or even unemployed for awhile until someone deems me worthy. Being on the Dean’s List in law school isn’t good enough anymore. Now we need 1937877136 externships, internships, and other worldly experience to stand out. And somehow, we have to find time to do all of this on top of the work we already have just to maintain good GPAs.
I try to stay optimistic. I try to remind myself that I went into this field because I truly wanted to help people who don’t have the ability to help themselves in the legal arena. I’m also trying to come to terms with the fact that I might wind up with a soul-sucking job (like, insurance company defense, which a friend of mine had to take) just in order to start paying the massive amounts of debt I’ve accrued.
But at the end of the day, I fall more in line with your thoughts. I do think higher education helps people people so much more knowledgeable, meet so many more people, and just lead such enriched lives. I think your job only helps weed out those who may not be letting others have the opportunities they deserve. So if you look at it that way, your job truly is rewarding :-)
XOXO
I’m about to say something potentially bad but… I’m sort of want to know what the other 84.1% of the employees in the Tobacco Manufacturing industry answered. I really hope most of them responded with No, as opposed to saying that Tobacco Manufacturing makes the world a better place…
Also – I love your blog. I’m in Austin, and just want to meet up sometime if you are visiting and eat reeces and go running and drink too much wine. Oh! And watch Downton Abbey. couldn’t forget that one. I hope you have a good weekend and avoid the spring breakers.